expand_less
ForPlayers now,who we'llhave useearned mythic status in the mythicWorld rulesof unchanged. the PlayerLedge charactersare won'tsignificantly bemore mythicpowerful byand default,versatile butthan they willwere earnbefore. We represent this statusboth flavorfully (by making them Legends, Immortals, and/or Avatars) and mechanically (by using Pathfinder's Mythic rules). This change in play. power Moreand houseflexibility rulescan willbe likelyproblematic follow,and butpotentially theredisrupt gameplay, so these house rules are aan fewattempt stylisticto changes:reign
In in the Worldworst ofoffending options, while keeping an eye on the Ledge,fun.
The Three Aspects
Legends, Immortals, and Avatars are mythic characters. These are usually referred to as the Three Aspects. Not all mythic characters belong to these Three Aspects, but all characters with at least one are mythic characters. Dragons, for example, have their own mythicpathnature not inherently connected to the Three Aspects. It is generally believed that deities possess all Three Aspects and that a mortal thatwho attains all three will become a god.god. Aspects are not the same as mythic paths; formally there is no relationship between a character's aspect and whatever mythic path they choose.
Legends
Legends possess a legendary style that inspires tales for the ages. These characters naturally attract followers, gaining the Leadership feat for free and the ability to recruit cohorts and followers without spending additional character points (CP). In addition, they may select mythic abilities from any mythic path that boosts their allies or matches their style. When a legend dies,theira designated cohort may take their place (gaining any levels or mythic tiers necessary to catch up to the rest of the party). This designated cohort always has full WBL, while other cohorts and followers use the NPC wealth track. Each Legend's style should reflect a tight narrative theme. Legends that adhere to this theme will be rewarded with boons to compensatecompensate. (askTypically, GMthis is done by allowing a Legend to flex abilities that are on-theme for details).off-theme abilities at the start of each day. As long as the majority of their abilities are on-theme, they're considered to still be on-theme. If a Legend ever loses their style (by being off-theme or due to dramatic character changes) or all of their followers (by death, desertion, etc.), then they are no longer a Legend (though they might regain the aspect in the future).
For example, if your theme is "King", and you have 10 abilities that are on-theme for a King (say they have the word "King" in the name or description, or they otherwise refer to someone of regal status), then as part of preparing your spells for the day, you may spend a mythic power point to change 4 of those abilities (be they feats, class features, spells, etc.) to any other options that a character of your level (and mythic tier) would have access to. These can be from other classes or mythic paths, from feats, or other options. As long as you meet the prerequisites of their source. But if you were to lose one of your on-theme abilities (say by being level-drained), you would also lose your Legendary style temporarily and the benefits that come with it (possibly including mythic tiers). So it's wise to remain on-theme and protective of your followers. Be prepared to give the GM a list of on-theme abilities, and the GM always has final say.
Immortals
Immortals possess an immortal secret that prevents them from dying by any known method. As soon as their immortal secret is discovered, they are vulnerable, and so most immortals go to great lengths to keep the secrets of their immortality hidden. In practice, this means that immortal characters can never be permanently slain or removed from play (at most they would need to wait 24 hours in-game, as the base mythic ability). In addition, they may select mythic abilities from any mythic path thatprotectprotects them or preventprevents their death. MythicMortal mortalmythic characters don't have access to the Immortal base mythic ability unless they become immortal.immortal. Generally, once an immortal's secret is discovered, they are no longer considered to have the Aspect of Immortality. There are lesser forms of immortality, like agelessness, invulnerability, etc., but only the only true immortals are the ones that possess this aspect - which strictly limits the means by which they can be truly defeated. Generally, when choosing an immortal secret, the players should choose one that is known by 3 individuals or less (probably only themselves), and the secret should be one that once discovered, makes them immediately and obviously vulnerable (if it doesn't outright kill them). One benchmark we use is: if a commoner knew the secret, and spent their whole life dedicated to destroying the immortal, they could do so (assuming that no other abilities of the immortal came into play).
For example, an alchemist might invent a potion of true immortality (similar to the grand discovery for Eternal Youth, but more potent). By drinking this potion each day, the alchemist does not age, nor need to eat, breathe, or sleep, and cannot be killed (any such attack would simply render him unconscious). Slight modifications to the formula would even allow him to escape impossible prisons (such as a wizard's demiplane), although this takes considerable time (at least 24 hours, and the expenditure of a mythic power point). While most components of the formula are relatively common and easy to find, there is one ingredient that is exceptionally rare - a flower that grows in a single secluded grove. The alchemist must exercise extreme caution in harvesting the flowers, for there are relatively few of them and anyone who learns of this secret ingredient could easily destroy the grove, rendering him mortal. Immortal secrets don't have to be physical. Other examples include speaking an immortal's truename backward, dealing a lethal blow at a particular time of day or night, or slaying their one true love.
Avatars
Avatars possess an avataric power passed down through their blood or stolen from others. These powers give absolute control over a specific domain, similar to the domains or portfolios of true deities. In practice, this allows avatars to overcome challenges normally impossible for all but the gods (such as the ability to cast spells in anti-magic fields, create new races of creatures, or even grant spells to true believers). In addition, they may select mythic abilities from any mythic path that match their domain. All non-divine avatars are mortal - when they die their powers pass to their next of kin. However, if a particularly strong-willed individual kills an avatar, there is a chance that these powers will pass to them instead. Because of the method by which avataric powers are passed, it is possible for avatars to have more mythic tiers than their level, but this can fluctuate for some time before they bring their powers undercontrol. control.
For example, an avatar of fire would have absolute control over fire, able to create or douse flames at will. If they wanted access to a specific ability, such as dragon's fiery breath, then they could spend a mythic power point as a free action to gain that ability for the rest of the encounter. They would still be restricted to abilities that a character of their level and tier would have access to (so the breath weapon attack of a dragon of their HD), and they'd still have to obey any other limits on that ability (such as the breath's recharge mechanic). Additionally, an avatar can wield their powers in ways only normally available to deities. For example, by spending a mythic power point, the avatar could cast a fireball spell within an antimagic zone. In the case where multiple mythic powers are in play (such as when two avatars are dueling), contested rolls might come into play, such as caster level checks in the previous example, but generally these are not needed when interacting with non-mythic creatures and effects. Some avataric powers are less clear, and it's advised to prepare a list of abilities that you expect to flex into during an encounter. The GM always has final say on what is on-theme or within the domain of your avataric powers.
It's rare, but possible, that a single character has multiple legendary styles, immortal secrets, or avataric powers. A character only needs one of each aspect to be considered divine.
Mythic Solutions
There are a number of challenges with the mechanics of the mythic rules as originally presented. A number of people have tried to reign in these rules, and a small collection of suggested alternatives is presented in the Mythic Solutions book (online [[http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/mythic-solutions|here]]here). I've decided to follow their suggestions, at least until we collectively decide to change our house rules, and I've provided selections and notes below. In some cases, I've made my own additions / changes, or left the rules as is. Those are noted too. For players that don't want to bother with all the mythic rules (or that feel overwhelmed), I'm working on a Mythic Character Creation tutorial that'll go over the process in a simplified form, with recommendations for the given options at each level. I'm also open to ignoring these mechanics and simply using the Three Aspects above, for the groups that would prefer that.
Base Mythic Abilities
As noted above, we're ignoring the 9th level base mythic ability: immortality. Only characters with an Aspect of Immortality / Immortal Secret would benefit from it, and we're already handling that with the rules above (though players may wish to take inspiration from the ability for their own immortality).
Problematic Rule: The amazing initiative basic mythic ability
For simplicity (and compatibility between different groups), we're going with Alternative Rule #2:
Eliminate this ability entirely from mythic PCs. If you feel the need to replace it, grant an additional mythic feat slot. This ability can be reserved for villains and creatures expected to fight alone against a group of PCs, helping them to get a first shot at PCs and to be able to take extra actions when they will be most impactful. Some monsters might also have the dual initiative ability; these abilities stack.
Notes: We will replace it with a mythic feat slot. We reserve the right to give this to villains, but promise not to overdo it.
Problematic Rule: Swift action path features
Alternative Rule: Make all path features of this type standard actions when used at a cost of 1 use of mythic power, with the option to expend 2 uses of mythic power to use the ability as a move action or 3 uses of mythic power to use it as a swift action. If the ability involves making an attack, expending 1 use of mythic power allows it to be used in place of an attack, including as part of an attack action, charge, or as part of a full attack action.
Notes: This applies to Archmage arcana, champion’s strike, guardian’s call, divine surge, marshal’s order, and trickster attack abilities that are usable as swift actions, as well as any similar ability at the GM's discretion.
Problematic Rule: Haste and extra attacks
I think the most intuitive alternative here (that doesn't slow down combat too much) is Alternative Rule #2:
Characters using the full attack action can benefit from extra attacks; however, each bonus attack after the first takes a cumulative ─5 penalty, similar to an iterative attack; however, this penalty cannot be reduced by abilities that reduce or eliminate iterative attack penalties, such as the precision champion path ability.
Notes: This is an issue with the base game as much as mythic, but I think applying a -5 penalty is reasonable and somewhat intuitive.
Problematic Rule: Titan’s bane champion path ability
Alternative Rule: If you enter the space of a mythic creature with this ability, it is considered flat-footed only against the first attack you make against it.
Notes: This seems like a reasonable rule to discourage an optimal option / auto-include.
The Nova Problem
Notes: Nova turns are still an issue, but I'm not sure if specific mechanics are the right solution here or if this is more of a metagame issue. At least for me, I plan to encourage saving resources for more encounters per day, and limiting the number of rests to prevent 5-minute adventuring days, which is a related problem.
Problematic Rule: Unlimited expenditure of mythic power
Alternative Rule: Player characters (and their allies) can use only one ability that requires the expenditure of mythic power per round. This may be a mythic feat, mythic spell, mythic path ability, a power used by a legendary item, or anything else; if it involves expending mythic power, a character can use only one per round. Characters can use abilities that require spending more than one use of mythic power.
For characters with a legendary item, you may choose whether to consider legendary power separate from or equivalent to mythic power for this use. Our recommendation is that legendary power be considered separately, but that it also follow the same rule. That is, that no more than one ability using legendary power can be used per round. Thus, a character with a legendary item could use one ability using her own mythic power, and could trigger one ability from the item using its legendary power.
Notes: I think this helps limit mythic nova abilities specifically, so I'm willing to try it this way. But again, I'm considering whether a mechanic change is the right approach here, so I'm willing to change things depending on how things play out.
Problematic Rule: Retroactive and scaling mythic surges
This will be handled by the adjustments to the [[https://ledge.971.cldstr.com/3_P_Fate_Points_House_Rules|Fate Points House Rules]]Fate Point House Rules (rewrite pending).
Stacking Multipliers
In
The Three Aspects
Legends, Immortals, and Avatars are mythic characters. These are usually referred to as the Three Aspects. Not all mythic characters belong to these Three Aspects, but all characters with at least one are mythic characters. Dragons, for example, have their own mythic
Legends
Legends possess a legendary style that inspires tales for the ages. These characters naturally attract followers, gaining the Leadership feat for free and the ability to recruit cohorts and followers without spending additional character points (CP). In addition, they may select mythic abilities from any mythic path that boosts their allies or matches their style. When a legend dies,
For example, if your theme is "King", and you have 10 abilities that are on-theme for a King (say they have the word "King" in the name or description, or they otherwise refer to someone of regal status), then as part of preparing your spells for the day, you may spend a mythic power point to change 4 of those abilities (be they feats, class features, spells, etc.) to any other options that a character of your level (and mythic tier) would have access to. These can be from other classes or mythic paths, from feats, or other options. As long as you meet the prerequisites of their source. But if you were to lose one of your on-theme abilities (say by being level-drained), you would also lose your Legendary style temporarily and the benefits that come with it (possibly including mythic tiers). So it's wise to remain on-theme and protective of your followers. Be prepared to give the GM a list of on-theme abilities, and the GM always has final say.
Immortals
Immortals possess an immortal secret that prevents them from dying by any known method. As soon as their immortal secret is discovered, they are vulnerable, and so most immortals go to great lengths to keep the secrets of their immortality hidden. In practice, this means that immortal characters can never be permanently slain or removed from play (at most they would need to wait 24 hours in-game, as the base mythic ability). In addition, they may select mythic abilities from any mythic path that
For example, an alchemist might invent a potion of true immortality (similar to the grand discovery for Eternal Youth, but more potent). By drinking this potion each day, the alchemist does not age, nor need to eat, breathe, or sleep, and cannot be killed (any such attack would simply render him unconscious). Slight modifications to the formula would even allow him to escape impossible prisons (such as a wizard's demiplane), although this takes considerable time (at least 24 hours, and the expenditure of a mythic power point). While most components of the formula are relatively common and easy to find, there is one ingredient that is exceptionally rare - a flower that grows in a single secluded grove. The alchemist must exercise extreme caution in harvesting the flowers, for there are relatively few of them and anyone who learns of this secret ingredient could easily destroy the grove, rendering him mortal. Immortal secrets don't have to be physical. Other examples include speaking an immortal's truename backward, dealing a lethal blow at a particular time of day or night, or slaying their one true love.
Avatars
Avatars possess an avataric power passed down through their blood or stolen from others. These powers give absolute control over a specific domain, similar to the domains or portfolios of true deities. In practice, this allows avatars to overcome challenges normally impossible for all but the gods (such as the ability to cast spells in anti-magic fields, create new races of creatures, or even grant spells to true believers). In addition, they may select mythic abilities from any mythic path that match their domain. All non-divine avatars are mortal - when they die their powers pass to their next of kin. However, if a particularly strong-willed individual kills an avatar, there is a chance that these powers will pass to them instead. Because of the method by which avataric powers are passed, it is possible for avatars to have more mythic tiers than their level, but this can fluctuate for some time before they bring their powers under
For example, an avatar of fire would have absolute control over fire, able to create or douse flames at will. If they wanted access to a specific ability, such as dragon's fiery breath, then they could spend a mythic power point as a free action to gain that ability for the rest of the encounter. They would still be restricted to abilities that a character of their level and tier would have access to (so the breath weapon attack of a dragon of their HD), and they'd still have to obey any other limits on that ability (such as the breath's recharge mechanic). Additionally, an avatar can wield their powers in ways only normally available to deities. For example, by spending a mythic power point, the avatar could cast a fireball spell within an antimagic zone. In the case where multiple mythic powers are in play (such as when two avatars are dueling), contested rolls might come into play, such as caster level checks in the previous example, but generally these are not needed when interacting with non-mythic creatures and effects. Some avataric powers are less clear, and it's advised to prepare a list of abilities that you expect to flex into during an encounter. The GM always has final say on what is on-theme or within the domain of your avataric powers.
It's rare, but possible, that a single character has multiple legendary styles, immortal secrets, or avataric powers. A character only needs one of each aspect to be considered divine.
Mythic Solutions
There are a number of challenges with the mechanics of the mythic rules as originally presented. A number of people have tried to reign in these rules, and a small collection of suggested alternatives is presented in the Mythic Solutions book (online [[http://spheresofpower.wikidot.com/mythic-solutions|here]]here). I've decided to follow their suggestions, at least until we collectively decide to change our house rules, and I've provided selections and notes below. In some cases, I've made my own additions / changes, or left the rules as is. Those are noted too. For players that don't want to bother with all the mythic rules (or that feel overwhelmed), I'm working on a Mythic Character Creation tutorial that'll go over the process in a simplified form, with recommendations for the given options at each level. I'm also open to ignoring these mechanics and simply using the Three Aspects above, for the groups that would prefer that.
Base Mythic Abilities
As noted above, we're ignoring the 9th level base mythic ability: immortality. Only characters with an Aspect of Immortality / Immortal Secret would benefit from it, and we're already handling that with the rules above (though players may wish to take inspiration from the ability for their own immortality).
Problematic Rule: The amazing initiative basic mythic ability
For simplicity (and compatibility between different groups), we're going with Alternative Rule #2:
Eliminate this ability entirely from mythic PCs. If you feel the need to replace it, grant an additional mythic feat slot. This ability can be reserved for villains and creatures expected to fight alone against a group of PCs, helping them to get a first shot at PCs and to be able to take extra actions when they will be most impactful. Some monsters might also have the dual initiative ability; these abilities stack.
Notes: We will replace it with a mythic feat slot. We reserve the right to give this to villains, but promise not to overdo it.
Problematic Rule: Swift action path features
Alternative Rule: Make all path features of this type standard actions when used at a cost of 1 use of mythic power, with the option to expend 2 uses of mythic power to use the ability as a move action or 3 uses of mythic power to use it as a swift action. If the ability involves making an attack, expending 1 use of mythic power allows it to be used in place of an attack, including as part of an attack action, charge, or as part of a full attack action.
Notes: This applies to Archmage arcana, champion’s strike, guardian’s call, divine surge, marshal’s order, and trickster attack abilities that are usable as swift actions, as well as any similar ability at the GM's discretion.
Problematic Rule: Haste and extra attacks
I think the most intuitive alternative here (that doesn't slow down combat too much) is Alternative Rule #2:
Characters using the full attack action can benefit from extra attacks; however, each bonus attack after the first takes a cumulative ─5 penalty, similar to an iterative attack; however, this penalty cannot be reduced by abilities that reduce or eliminate iterative attack penalties, such as the precision champion path ability.
Notes: This is an issue with the base game as much as mythic, but I think applying a -5 penalty is reasonable and somewhat intuitive.
Problematic Rule: Titan’s bane champion path ability
Alternative Rule: If you enter the space of a mythic creature with this ability, it is considered flat-footed only against the first attack you make against it.
Notes: This seems like a reasonable rule to discourage an optimal option / auto-include.
The Nova Problem
Notes: Nova turns are still an issue, but I'm not sure if specific mechanics are the right solution here or if this is more of a metagame issue. At least for me, I plan to encourage saving resources for more encounters per day, and limiting the number of rests to prevent 5-minute adventuring days, which is a related problem.
Problematic Rule: Unlimited expenditure of mythic power
Alternative Rule: Player characters (and their allies) can use only one ability that requires the expenditure of mythic power per round. This may be a mythic feat, mythic spell, mythic path ability, a power used by a legendary item, or anything else; if it involves expending mythic power, a character can use only one per round. Characters can use abilities that require spending more than one use of mythic power.
For characters with a legendary item, you may choose whether to consider legendary power separate from or equivalent to mythic power for this use. Our recommendation is that legendary power be considered separately, but that it also follow the same rule. That is, that no more than one ability using legendary power can be used per round. Thus, a character with a legendary item could use one ability using her own mythic power, and could trigger one ability from the item using its legendary power.
Notes: I think this helps limit mythic nova abilities specifically, so I'm willing to try it this way. But again, I'm considering whether a mechanic change is the right approach here, so I'm willing to change things depending on how things play out.
Problematic Rule: Retroactive and scaling mythic surges
This will be handled by the adjustments to the [[https://ledge.971.cldstr.com/3_P_Fate_Points_House_Rules|Fate Points House Rules]]Fate Point House Rules (rewrite pending).
Stacking Multipliers